Episode 111: Your Life, Your Decisions -- Until You Don't Plan

What happens when someone can no longer make their own decisions—and has no one legally authorized to step in? In this important episode of Informed Aging, Robin Rountree sits down with Amy Bryant of the Florida Guardian Support Network to break down the realities of guardianship in Florida.

Amy explains why guardianship is considered a last resort, how the court process works, what rights can be removed, and why planning ahead is so critical—especially for older adults, people living alone, and those experiencing cognitive decline. The conversation also explores who guardians are, why there’s a growing shortage, and how compassionate individuals can serve some of the most vulnerable members of our community.

This episode is a powerful reminder that writing down your wishes and naming someone you trust can mean the difference between control and court involvement.

Amy Bryant
Florida Guardian Support Network
🌐 Website: https://www.flgsn.org
📧 Email: amy@flgsn.org

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Transcript

[00:02:25] Robin Rountree: We are back and we are talking to Amy Bryant who is going to tell us all about guardianship. And let's just start off with the hard stuff. You don't ever want to have to be looked after by a guardian. Am I correct in saying that?

[00:02:43] Amy Bryant: Correct. Yeah. It's really a process of last resort and we really want, uh, families to take care of family members. If there's not family, trusted friends, to people in your lives to that know that person let's have somebody you know that that's familiar with that person to come in and make these very important healthcare financial decisions.

[00:03:05] But, lot of people don't have anyone. They don't have family or they don't have family that they want involved, and so, something happens and they become incapacitated, which is usually by age, injury or illness. Something happens, uh, they end up in the hospital and the hospitals make a determination.

[00:03:26] Where is this person cognitively? Can they participate in their discharge planning? Is it safe for them to go back home? What's going on in this person's life? So the hospitals are largely the entities, um, that petitioned for guardianships.

[00:03:40] Robin Rountree: Alright, so let's talk about exactly what a guardianship is. I was talking to a gentleman who said his friend didn't have anyone but didn't wanna talk about end of life planning, didn't wanna make any arrangements.

[00:03:52] So is that kind of what happens if you have no one to make a decision for you.

[00:03:57] If you don't have anyone and you need someone, you're not cognitively able to make those decisions anymore. Is that usually why we get guardianship? 

[00:04:06] Amy Bryant: Yes. It's a determination of incapacity.

[00:04:09] It's a court proceeding, it's a legal proceeding. Attorneys, you know, are involved. Uh, so attorneys represent the hospital. And they go to the guardianship court and say, judge, we think there's a question for this person's, incapacity, will you please, take this under advisement?

[00:04:26] And that's what kind of gets the ball rolling. So the judge is gonna appoint an examining committee. That's three people, two physicians and one lay person, a nurse, a geriatric care manager, somebody with the knowledge and skills. So those folks go out and meet, with the, the person in question and they do a report back to the judge.

[00:04:46] Here's what we think here. You know, it's pretty extensive. And the judge makes a determination of incapacity. So it's just a judge makes that determination based on those reports. And 

[00:04:59] Robin Rountree: so it's not just one doctor saying, this person can't make, so I understand the three people. You kind of get a balanced opinion, hopefully.

[00:05:07] Amy Bryant: Hopefully. Yep. Hopefully. 

[00:05:09] Robin Rountree: And so three people, two out of the three have decided you no longer can take care of yourself. 

[00:05:17] Amy Bryant: It's not always unanimous. I mean, you know, it's sometimes it's very simple, very cut and dry. If we have a difference in opinion of examining committee members it, again, the judge is gonna take that information and say, you know, whether or not that person needs a guardian. There are different types of guardianship. It could be limited. So the judge says, I think you're okay to make these decisions, but I think you need someone to make these decisions. But the point is these are taking rights away. You know, this is a, a person, this is a human being, and so it needs to be taken very serious. And it's a very serious decision, you know, for a judge, to take someone's rights away and put them, in the hands of a stranger.

[00:05:59] Robin Rountree: A stranger. 

[00:06:00] Amy Bryant: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:00] Robin Rountree: Yeah. 

[00:06:00] Amy Bryant: Potentially a stranger.

[00:06:01] Robin Rountree: What are these rights that this judge can remove from you? 

[00:06:06] Amy Bryant: So, uh, basically medical decisions, financial decisions, property you know, personal property um, how that's handled and distributed, protected. Your ability to determine your residence.

[00:06:18] Where you live, the ability to determine your social circle. Sometimes, if the person is not safe, you know, if they can't keep themselves in a safe environment, um, sometimes there are family issues and problems and, that's not necessarily good for that person to, have a potentially negative, you know, influence.

[00:06:41] So that's, that's an interesting one when it comes to social environment.

[00:06:45] Robin Rountree: So a judge can, can say to you, if you have not put anything in place about who can make decisions, if you end up cognitively impaired, having a dementia, Alzheimer's, lew body, all of these different kinds, a judge can say, this person.

[00:07:03] We're going to take your rights away and this guardian can decide where you live. Mm-hmm. How your money is spent, what healthcare decisions are made on your behalf. 

[00:07:13] Amy Bryant: Correct. 

[00:07:14] Robin Rountree: Who can hang around you. I think that should scare a lot of people. 

[00:07:18] Amy Bryant: It's a lot. 

[00:07:19] Robin Rountree: And that's what I wanted to have you on is nobody wants to end up

[00:07:24] having a guardian 

[00:07:25] Amy Bryant: Right. Nobody. Yeah, it's, it should be last resort. There's some fairly simple ways people can avoid, you know, having that happen. Um, but it does, and I mean, the demand is great. All over the state. Um, I get calls from all over the state

[00:07:41] people needing guardians or they just dunno where to start. So being in Florida with our aging population, guardianship applies to adults 18 and over. So generally we see an aging elderly people, but another growing population is the young adults aging out of foster care. Oh.

[00:08:04] So you can imagine, for a guardian, managing a 24-year-old is a completely different ballgame than managing, an 80-year-old. So it's just, it's a very different job. But some people some guardians love to work with young adults and so I tell everybody when we're recruiting 'cause there's not enough guardians and we need more guardians.

[00:08:24] And so I always say that this is the beauty of being able to choose who you wanna work with, and you get to choose your cases. And oh, by the way, if you love young adults, have I got a deal for you! So there's lots of opportunity to serve a vulnerable population. 

[00:08:40] Robin Rountree: Yeah. So who are these guardians? 

[00:08:43] Amy Bryant: So 

[00:08:45] Robin Rountree: guardian angels then? 

[00:08:46] Amy Bryant: Yeah. Guardians come from all walks of life. What I see most is people who have worked in and around guardianship or they have had a family experience so they kind of know what the process is or they know what the requirements are.

[00:09:02] We see a lot of social workers, people with teaching backgrounds former foster parents, EMS people, former law enforcement people. It's really just, it's a servant heart, you know, kind of job and, you just really need to care about people. And it's, you know, at its core, um, these people are generally vulnerable.

[00:09:24] And don't have someone, you know to look out, for them, 

[00:09:27] Robin Rountree: the person they're caring for is vulnerable. 

[00:09:29] Amy Bryant: Right. 

[00:09:29] Robin Rountree: Okay. 

[00:09:30] Amy Bryant: So we wanna need to make sure they're protected and whether there's lots of assets, you know, to worry about. Or if there's none that's still, you know, a person that's worthy of that protection from abuse, neglect, and neglect and exploitation and it's a big calling.

[00:09:44] Robin Rountree: Yeah.

[00:09:45] And Amy, how did you get to become.

[00:09:47] A guardian? 

[00:09:49] Amy Bryant: I was a civil litigation paralegal. So I had my first career in that. And then when I'd had enough of that, I went into nonprofit. Um, so when I was transitioning from that agency looking for a job, I wanted to stay in nonprofit and I discovered seniors first.

[00:10:06] So seniors first operates the Public Guardian office locally for Orange and Seminole County, and they had a guardianship paralegal position. And I was like, oh, well that's cool. That's kind of an interesting combination of my weird background and that was my introduction to guardianship. I didn't really know like most people, I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know this was, a thing. And a growing thing for sure. So I was there about a year and a half. And was approached by a couple of attorneys, they were formulating a foundation, I left seniors first and I went to work for one of the attorneys, uh, that was a founder.

[00:10:44] And so then I became the sole employee of the support network.

[00:10:47] Robin Rountree: You are with the Florida Guardian Support Network. Mm-hmm. So is that supporting guardians? 

[00:10:53] Amy Bryant: Yes. So our mission really is to serve the people in our area who need professional guardian services and don't have the resources, to pay for them.

[00:11:03] So. You know, professional guardians, it's their job. You know, my attorney, my CPA, my dentist, you know, all of those people get paid for the good work that they do. Professional guardians, um, absolutely should be paid for the good work that they do. But what we're seeing in our community and, everywhere the growing need for guardianship services with people who don't have

[00:11:24] assets who don't have, the ability, or the resources to pay for those things. So we were born with the idea of a compensation model. We're like, okay, this is not going away. This problem's not going to magically be cured. Let's, offer some compensation to the guardians and their attorneys.

[00:11:42] 'Cause if you're, you know, as a guardian, you're required by statute to have an attorney. So we started that model in orange, Osceola and Seminole County cases. And, we've just, we've been moving down that path and, and figuring out how to best serve the guardians in our area who are taking care of the vulnerable people in our area.

[00:12:02] Robin Rountree: Wow. Good for you. How could you find out more about your organization? 

[00:12:05] Amy Bryant: It's flgsn.org

[00:12:09] Robin Rountree: So Florida guardian. Support network. 

[00:12:13] Amy Bryant: You can Google it, it'll come up. And then the website is FLG sn.org and of course, 

[00:12:19] My information's on the website, if you call or email, it comes directly to me. 

[00:12:24] Robin Rountree: So if somebody is listening to this and hearing what could happen if you have to get a guardian. What are the simple things you can do to prevent that from happening? 

[00:12:34] Amy Bryant: Make your wishes known. You know, even if you don't have family or trusted friend, but write down, write. Just write it down. Write down what you want. Have a healthcare surrogate is a single piece of paper that just gives somebody the authority to make healthcare decisions for you

[00:12:50] if something happens and you're in the hospital, and they're going to take care of you, but you have someone that you would trust, you know, in that capacity you just wanna do some sort of planning at a very basic level just to avoid, you know, because if you can't tell us

[00:13:06] what you want, then your documents, you know, have to be able to tell us, what you want. And sometimes families you don't wanna share that information with family and that's fine. But just, you know, you need someone that you trust somewhere in the world. Hey, if something ever happens to me, what, you know, whatever the case may be and just spend a little time thinking about it.

[00:13:24] It is kind of scary. It's a huge responsibility on the guardian side. And almost every guardian I have ever met is absolutely doing the very best, you know, to their ability to protect and serve the people that they're responsible for. Um, it's, you are a stranger.

[00:13:41] You are a stranger. So we always want families. To try to take care of families, our trusted friends, lifelong friends, partners, all those important people in your life. If you had to have somebody make decisions for you, if you have a trusted person you know, that you would like instead of a stranger, then absolutely.

[00:14:00] You know, try to try to do that. 

[00:14:02] Robin Rountree: And I find a lot of people know what they want. They just haven't written it down. Yeah. Yeah, it's tough, but write it down and tell someone where it is. 

[00:14:11] Amy Bryant: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:11] Robin Rountree: I was having a talk recently with my girlfriend and she's like, oh, I wouldn't want this, but I want this, I want my ashes spread here.

[00:14:17] And you would be in charge of it. I'm like, girl, you better write that down. 'cause if you think I can remember that 20 years from now. 

[00:14:24] Amy Bryant: Right, exactly. And things change. You know, that's the other thing. It's like, so a lot of people, oh, I did my stuff years ago. I, well now I'm divorced.

[00:14:32] Or now maybe a spouse has passed away, or you need to look at what you've done 20 years ago and just make sure it's still, you know, is everything still, you know what you want? Is everything still cool? And the, the people who are, you've delegated that authority to, are they still.

[00:14:47] Around, are they still able? 

[00:14:48] Robin Rountree: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:49] Amy Bryant: They don't always want to. I have seen, I have seen some situations where people may have done their planning and, you know, they, they really have tried, you know, to, to take steps. Um, so a, a guardian doesn't have to come in, but they never told. The people 

[00:15:04] Robin Rountree: Yeah.

[00:15:04] Amy Bryant: That they voluntold, you know, they never, they never told the folks that they wanted to serve in that kind of role. And that can be a bit of a shock 

[00:15:11] Robin Rountree: yeah. So, uh, definitely tell those people see if that's okay with them, um, before you write them down and, you know, have some backup people.

[00:15:19] That's always good. And I it's if you think you have no one. Then please open up your life to get some people in it. We've learned that loneliness is just about as bad for you as smoking 15 cigarettes a day, 

[00:15:34] Amy Bryant: right? 

[00:15:34] Robin Rountree: Please, uh, unless you want your life to be signed away to a complete stranger who will do their best.

[00:15:41] Please, please, please put down your healthcare story again and, and make some plans so someone you know and that you like will be stepping into your life to take over if the need arises. 

[00:15:53] Amy Bryant: Right 

[00:15:54] Robin Rountree: now, if adult children are taking care of a parent. And this parent has some cognitive decline, possibly some dementia.

[00:16:05] We need, definitely need to start getting POA and that sort of thing in place because we will hear from families that have waited too long. 

[00:16:14] Amy Bryant: Right. 

[00:16:14] Robin Rountree: That a, a legal attorney is not going to allow them to sign a document because it is clear they do not understand. So to become a guardian for a parent or another family member is not cheap.

[00:16:29] Amy Bryant: No. It's, it's essentially the same process. Uh, whether you are a healthcare facility initiating a guardianship proceeding, if you are a family member and we need to take care of mom, we need to take care of dad. It's the same legal proceeding. Families can be the petitioners, you know, families can say, with their attorney, judge, we think, mom, dad, you know, please evaluate them, determine incapacity.

[00:16:53] A family member can be the guardian, but just because you're family doesn't mean you get. To be the guardian, you have to qualify. So it's, a lot of times people just think, oh, we're family and we're good. And a lot of times that's true, but you do have to qualify. There are some, you know, things that need to, to be okay.

[00:17:11] You know, if your, if your financial house is not necessarily an order, a judge might not want you managing, mom or dad's, you know, stuff. So they look at all of those things. So yes, and it's, it's lengthy and it's expensive. 

[00:17:24] Robin Rountree: I've heard 10 grand. 

[00:17:26] Amy Bryant: It depends. It depends. I know, I, I hate that as an answer.

[00:17:30] Um, but guardianship is handled in differently in every single county in the state. Ooh. All 67 of 'em handle guardianship in a different way. Most local attorneys because the demand is so great, you know, so they're, they're doing a balancing act, you know, as well, um, between people who have resources and, and people who do not.

[00:17:48] And our public offices are, strapped and have waiting lists and, it's just it's sounds like a dire situation and it kind of is. Hmm. But we are all working, hard to work within the system, um, that's in place.

[00:18:01] Robin Rountree: You're saying most of the guardians are all of the guardians, you know, have a good heart and do a great job at this. 

[00:18:07] Amy Bryant: Yes. 

[00:18:07] Robin Rountree: There's been some bad apples in the news, 

[00:18:10] Amy Bryant: right? 

[00:18:11] Robin Rountree: One locally. And then I'm thinking of the Wendy Williams case. That the family will say bad things about the Guardian in the Wendy Williams case, but we don't hear the Guardian side because they're not holding a press conference.

[00:18:22] 'cause it's not really their job to do that. But you would say probably 99% of guardians are gonna do the right thing. 

[00:18:31] Amy Bryant: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's just like anything in the news. 

[00:18:34] If you hear it in the news, it's bad, 

[00:18:37] Robin Rountree: right? 

[00:18:37] Amy Bryant: So if you hear something in the news or watch a movie or any of the things and something to remember.

[00:18:43] Um, guardianship cases are confidential, so these are court cases, you know, through the court system. A. There are ways to talk about positive outcomes. There are ways to talk about good things that are happening. You just, you know, there are ways to do that. We just have to be careful. So what ends up in the news is kind of the terrible, awful, and like you said, you're only getting one side of it.

[00:19:05] So, I think every profession has a bad actor, 

[00:19:09] Robin Rountree: right? 

[00:19:09] Okay. And if you've been listening to this and your little heart is nudging you, saying Maybe it would be a great job for me to help somebody who has nobody at all. How do you become a guardian? 

[00:19:23] Amy Bryant: So it is a 40 hour class.

[00:19:26] Robin Rountree: Okay. 

[00:19:27] Amy Bryant: There is a state exam. You have to pass a level two background check.

[00:19:31] Robin Rountree: Thank goodness. 

[00:19:32] Amy Bryant: Yes, yes. And you need to have decent credit. I used to say you need good credit, but that's that good credit freaks people out, 

[00:19:39] Robin Rountree: right? 

[00:19:39] Amy Bryant: So you need, if you're, you know, you need to be able to manage your own finances if you're gonna manage someone else's.

[00:19:45] Everybody has things happen. A blip on, you know, on your credit score. I've never, uh, seen anyone really rejected for something like that. You just write a letter and say, here's what happened. Fingerprinting. You have to have a bond. Uh, guardians have a $50,000 bond.

[00:19:59] Takes three months, six months, kind of depends on where you want to work. And you have to register in the counties that you wanna work in.

[00:20:06] Uh, it's about a thousand dollars out of pocket, um, for the whole, process. 

[00:20:11] Of course it's never a short conversation about becoming a guardian. But I do a lot of these con types of conversations, uh, with people who have questions. And if they think it's right for them. There's a lot of flexibility. You do get to decide, you know, what kind of cases, you know, you want to work on.

[00:20:28] Robin Rountree: Um. A lot of retirees. You said former this, former that in the field. So is it guardians tend to be a little older? 

[00:20:38] Amy Bryant: Right now, the average age of a guardian in Florida is 62.

[00:20:42] And so that doesn't necessarily mean it's because sort of young retirees are coming in. It's because our veterans are seasoned, uh, professionals that have been doing it 20, 30 years. They're now getting to the point where they're, they're ready to start thinking about retirement. So there are just not enough new people coming into the field.

[00:21:04] I think young retired audience or group would be might be really receptive.

[00:21:09] It really takes just somebody who has the time and may not necessarily want to depend on it for the compensation piece, um, what I am seeing a lot of new guardians are

[00:21:20] they're keeping their day jobs, like they're keeping their eight to fives. They're keeping their every two week paycheck and benefits, and they're taking a few cases on the side. 

[00:21:29] Robin Rountree: Oh, 

[00:21:29] Amy Bryant: so these are folks that are, that just are doing it really for the service part of it. And that's wonderful.

[00:21:35] That's, you know, if every new guardian just took a handful of cases, then those 2, 3, 4 people are now safe and protected and that's great. So very few people are coming in and kind of wanting, wanting to do it full time. Um, but it's kind, it's a bit of a hard sell, you know, it's a lot of responsibility.

[00:21:54] Um, it's, you know, sounds a little scary and, and it can be. But. The need is, is not going away. You know, that demand is, is not going away. So we have to have qualified people who will step up, you know, and, and serve in this capacity. It's definitely a calling. And we just have to work, uh, within the system, you know, that we have.

[00:22:17] And so we, we wanna figure out as a, a small agency how we can help, um, ease the burden for, um, anyone who might be thinking about it. 

[00:22:26] Robin Rountree: That's amazing. So it's the Florida Guardian Support Network and if they wanna reach out to you, your email address is amy@flgsn.org. That will be in the show notes.

[00:22:39] Please get your legal affairs in order. It doesn't have to be crazy expensive. We need a healthcare surrogate, possibly power of attorney. Depending on your needs, but please tell people your wishes. It'll make life so much better. Thank you so much for being here today, Amy. 

[00:22:55] Amy Bryant: Absolutely. Robin. Thank you for having me.