Episode 115: Just Breathe—But Do It Better

You’re already breathing—but are you doing it in a way that helps your body?

In this episode of Informed Aging, Robin talks with Jamie Hollis, MA of The Whole Space about how simple breathwork techniques can quickly reduce stress and calm your nervous system. Learn why the way you breathe matters and try an easy exercise you can use anywhere—especially in challenging caregiving moments.

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Transcript

BreathWork

[00:00:04] Robin Rountree: Welcome to Informed Aging, a podcast about health, help, and hard decisions for older adults. I'm Robin Rountree, a former family caregiver. I've worked in the home care industry and now work for the Alzheimer's and Dementia Resource Center. The thoughts and opinions on this podcast belong to me and my guests, not our wonderful employers and sponsors.

[00:00:28] Before making any significant changes in your life or your person's life, please consult your own experts. Today we're talking about breathing. Yeah, it's something you're doing right now, but can we make it better? We're gonna find out right after these messages

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[00:01:11] For more information, log on to seniorhelpers.com/orlando.

[00:01:46] Robin Rountree: We're back, and we are talking about the breath today, and my guest is Jamie Hollis. She is with The Whole Space.

[00:01:54] How you doing, Jamie? 

[00:01:56] Jamie Hollis: I am doing well. So pleased to be here. 

[00:01:57] Robin Rountree: Thank you. you've got an MA behind your name. What does that stand for? 

[00:02:02] Jamie Hollis: That just indicates that I have a master's degree, and mine is in clinical psychology. 

[00:02:07] Robin Rountree: Nice. Yeah. Nice. Have you been a therapist? 

[00:02:11] Jamie Hollis: So I was. like many of us, I have had a couple turns in the pathway- of my professional life. And so I was a therapist. I was trained as a licensed professional counselor. For about five years, working in that capacity before. Okay. Yeah, a little bit of a bob and a weave to my path.

[00:02:28] Robin Rountree: Nothing wrong with a bob and a weave.

[00:02:30] Jamie Hollis: Yeah. Yes. 

[00:02:31] Robin Rountree: And then you own The Whole Space, and the website is thewholespace.org. What do you do there? 

[00:02:39] Jamie Hollis: So The Whole Space is a wellness practice that's focused specifically on breathwork and interpersonal coaching, so bringing together the idea that our minds and our bodies have equal place and value on stage for each of us.

[00:02:54] Robin Rountree: Right, and in this world of social media and everything, there's wellness that is way out there, and then there's good wellness. and I hate to put a label on all of it, but some of it is woo-woo with science behind it. So we're gonna look at breathwork today. What is breathwork? 

[00:03:14] Jamie Hollis: I love that you started that frame because I think we all kinda enter the stage with our own level of comfort on that continuum of what you s- you used the word- woo scale. ... which is so true. But is also true of breathwork is that there is an art and a science behind breathwork. And so whether or not you're someone that really, has that part of you that likes to do some of those wellness experiences that are kind of over here on that continuum, or you're all the way over here on the other side, breathwork really is a common denominator where it can reach everyone.

[00:03:49] Robin Rountree: So let me- put myself in the seat of a cynic I'm already breathing. Why do I have to work at it? 

[00:03:58] Jaimie Hollis: That is a great question, and it's actually, one that has us thinking about our bodies, the fact that we are all like the common denominator between all of us is we are all breathing every- moment of every day, right? And our bodies do that automatically without us having to think at all about it. can you think if we had to? That would just be ... Add that to the list of things we have to think about. Oh, geez, right? Right? so what's beautiful about the breath is that it happens naturally for us without any effort, but when we put effort behind the breath with intention and in certain ways using certain patterns, there are distinct ways that our body responds to it when we do that.

[00:04:37] Robin Rountree: Okay. one thing that's coming to my mind when I think about breathing is when we, get stressed out, I gotta be told, "Remember to breathe." Now, my body is breathing, but not deep breaths. I go shallow, right? Is that what we do? 

[00:04:53] Jamie Hollis: Yes. Yes. So me- we can all think around how ... what do we do in our bodies when we feel stressed or we've had, when we've had a chaotic day or we've just not had enough sleep.

[00:05:03] we can pay attention to the way our breath goes, and for many of us, we can do a couple things. We can tend to hold our breath if- ... for example, you're in a deeply focused ..\ There's science that's, writes about the idea that a human tendency is to sometimes hold our breaths when we're writing an email or sending any kind of communication that has any kind of emotion behind it.

[00:05:25] Wow. So we can maybe hold our breath without even, knowing it or consciously thinking about it, or we can, just as you mentioned, have that breath really live and just kinda remain in that, in that upper chest portion of our bodies, which sends a signal to our body of how we are, that maybe there's certain conditions around us.

[00:05:46] And so that can be the impetus that signals shallow breath, heart rate becomes affected. Other things in our bodies become a little bit more on higher alert. So exactly. any kind of stress can tend to shift us into upper chest breath. 

[00:06:03] Robin Rountree: Okay, so you may hold your breath or not breathe with the diaphragm.

[00:06:08] Jamie Hollis: Right. 

[00:06:09] Robin Rountree: And a lotta people don't know what this is that I'm talking about, our diaphragm. So what's, what would be an A+ breath? 

[00:06:16] Jamie Hollis: Oh my gosh, I love that question.

[00:06:19] An A+ breath. so an A+ breath, if you are looking to really bring some of that intention to how you can, support yourself to be in that, a more calm and relaxed manner, we're pulling from that diaphragm, that lower belly- We're sort of using all of that space that we have in our chest that go from our diaphragm all the way up, right?

[00:06:39] But we're using all that capacity as our container. but what w- what happens is when we pull from the diaphragm, we know that sends signals to our nervous systems, that in time after we continue with that type of breath, it can help us understand in our bodies that, okay, everything is calm and things are safe around us, and we have a little bit of a steadiness to the flow.

[00:07:06] It just starts to send signals to this other part of us that's not on alert, like I just explained earlier. It's the side of our nervous systems that say, "Hey, we are okay. it's okay to be calm and relaxed, and we can digest things," and all those types of things. 

[00:07:22] Robin Rountree: And so the diaphragm, let me get this right, is the muscle under your lungs?

[00:07:26] Jamie Hollis: Yes. So it sits deep in there, right? And so we know that you're pulling from your diaphragm especially, when you're laying down, this can be an ... If you're new to this and you're like, "What does it mean to breathe through your diaphragm?" 

[00:07:36] I would suggest getting down on the floor if that feels accessible to you.

[00:07:40] Robin Rountree: Okay. 

[00:07:40] Jamie Hollis: you can get on the floor and lay on your back, and as you watch yourself breathe and you try to pull from that lower part of your body, you're gonna see that your tummy kind of expand with the breath, right? You're gonna see the physical rise of your stomach. you're gonna see even your ribs expand, right?

[00:07:56] So- Okay ... even this simple practice of being aware, bringing intentionality around how we initiate that breath in the, that kind of lower region of our body, that can start to just train us to think about the breath in a, in a healthy way, right? So it's something that we can return to when we're driving, when we're, 

[00:08:18] yeah. When we're waiting in line at the grocery or maybe when we're, when some of our calm, when our nerves are challenged, right? It's something we can actually check for and just, yeah, signal to our bodies, "Oh, lower breath." 

[00:08:28] Robin Rountree: Okay. Yeah. So with the shoulders, if your shoulders are going up and down, that is not your A+ breath.

[00:08:36] Jamie Hollis: I would not give that an A+, no. 

[00:08:37] Robin Rountree: No, that would be like a C. Yes. Okay. Yes. And I read a book recently about a woman with a lot of issues around food, and she just sucked her stomach in all the time because , the only thought that was constantly in her mind was, "Look thin, look thin, look thin."

[00:08:53] And it, she actually damaged her lungs- 

[00:08:56] Jamie Hollis: Yeah ... 

[00:08:56] Robin Rountree: from doing that. So yeah, it's okay to release your stomach- 

[00:08:59] Jamie Hollis: It is ... 

[00:09:00] Robin Rountree: to breathe. 

[00:09:01] Jamie Hollis: Yes. And it's just, Yeah, that's such a great point around what society, what social things that we even intend ... even we know we're taking in.

[00:09:09] we lead a really, connected life these days. Mm ... and that can bring really good, things and ideas to us, but it also can bring other things, right? Right. That tell us that, yes, looking like stomach pulled in and- ... shoulders back, which, posture is important, but yes, breathing with that tummy breath, right?

[00:09:28] It's just an indicator of that we wanna pull from that lower region, absolutely. Yeah. 

[00:09:32] Robin Rountree: Okay. So we talk about breath, and your body is reading how you're breathing as to how you are.

[00:09:40] it's taking the temperature. Are we stressed out? And looking for danger, or are we calm- ... and we can go on with our bodily functions and everything is fine, right? So just ta- taking a good breath is going to help you with that. 

[00:09:54] I get that. But do we need to sit down and, work on breath, and is it the same thing as meditation, or is it different?

[00:10:03] Jamie Hollis: I, what I will say is a couple of things. what's ... And we talked a little bit about this earlier. The cool thing about the breath is that, A, we all have it. 

[00:10:11] Everyone has access to it, but what we know is that it is the quickest way our bodies have available to change your physiology, like what's going on.

[00:10:24] So the breath is the fastest way we can impact our heart rate. All these other things and all these other systems that are operating in concert with one another on the inside that we don't even know that's happening, but it certainly gives us a response to how we're feeling, right?

[00:10:39] the way in which, are we relaxed today? Are we stressed today? The breath is the easiest, most accessible tool we have to change how we feel on the inside. So the breath, as you, and you mentioned, meditation- So the breathwork, in particular is what we call a somatic tool, and so that might be a new word for you.

[00:10:59] And if when we think about a somatic tool, it's a way in which we have a tool to get inside of our bodies, right? To think about the inside, be internally, focused versus externally focused. So we have these tools - at our fingertips. yoga, mindfulness, meditation, breathwork.

[00:11:20] These all kind of fit under a category of things that we have access to that help us bring our parasympathetic nervous system. to, allow our bodies to spend time in that mode versus just being in that alert sympathetic nervous system mode where, you know, where you're scanning the environment for what's out there, right? 

[00:11:43] Robin Rountree: So I, back when humans were first formed, it was very good to have that nervous energy because you're listening for predators.

[00:11:49] Jamie Hollis: Exactly. 

[00:11:50] Robin Rountree: But our bodies, let me see if I'm getting this right. 

[00:11:53] Jamie Hollis: Yeah. 

[00:11:54] Robin Rountree: But we, if traffic is bad and we get upset, it's just like I hear a predator. Our body doesn't really know the difference and goes stressful, and we can't live in that place. We need it for the special occasions. 

[00:12:06] Jamie Hollis: We do. It's, that is such a great way, and there's a lot of, there's a lot of people that written some great things about this too.

[00:12:13] But yes, we share this with animals in the wild, right? So we need both parts. Our nervous systems, our bodies, we need both. We need a way to have our bodies signal to us about what's going on in the environment. Is there a threat? Is there something we need to ready ourselves for?

[00:12:31] You'll see that, okay, you're in your car, and you come up to an intersection and someone pulls in front of you, and you are this close, right- ... to getting in a little fender bender. We all know that feeling, right? Like- Yeah ... you can feel your heart starts pumping. Your breathing starts to change.

[00:12:47] You might even feel some of that muscle activation where you feel tense. And so that serves a purpose for us. That keeps us safe, and it helps us understand the world around us. but we're not meant to live solely in that- ... space, right? We need the balance of being able to rise to the occasion when those threats happen, but we also need to be able to come right back down, right?

[00:13:09] And to be able to come back to that relaxed state to have balance. That's the goal. The goal isn't, chronic calm realistically, and it's humans, we're meant to have both, and we're meant to have a container essentially on our inside in our bodies that allow us to flow freely between both.

[00:13:27] Robin Rountree: Okay. But if you get stuck and stressed out- ... and every day at work feels like- Yes ... you almost hit a car- Yeah ... that is really bad for your body. 

[00:13:35] Jamie Hollis: It's bad for us to stay there, and that's where we hear, and, and we hear about this all the time now in the mental health circles, where the community tells us that we need to be on alert for burnout.

[00:13:44] That's what we're learning about, people who are reporting high rates of exhaustion and stress. And, I'm talking about the level of exhaustion and tiredness that goes beyond sometimes even where an eight-hour night's sleep gives us, right?

[00:14:00] Have you ever had, for example, the experience of I'm gonna take good care of myself. I'm gonna go to bed early. Mm-hmm. You get eight hours of sleep, but you still can wake up feeling that same level of exhaustion. The answer to that puzzle is, why is this happening? Why am I still feeling like this?

[00:14:17] is oftentimes our nervous system, that we aren't allowing our bodies that time. we're staying in that even, slightly activated mode, where we don't even know we're still in, over here. so that's why, engaging in some of these practices and really, and being curious about how you can bring more of them into your life is just so essential.

[00:14:36] Robin Rountree: Awesome. Now, you can't say the word burnout without m- without me thinking about our dementia caregivers. Absolutely. of course, at the Alzheimer's and Dementia Resource Center, we know these caregivers are doing so much. So is breathwork something It's free- 

[00:14:52] Robin Rountree: which I like to

[00:14:52] point that out. it's a tool that you can use, but it doesn't have to be, like, 30 minutes a day, right? 

[00:14:58] Jamie Hollis: No. No, it doesn't. And so here's what I like to say. I like to invite people who wanna be curious about how, "Okay, how ... I know I need to do some of these things. I know I need to learn how to relax more."

[00:15:10] And, for some people, meditation can be really challenging. It can be a challenging practice to bring into your life 'cause maybe you just really struggle to settle your mind, or, I st- I struggle to just keep, keep my mind focused. So I think breathwork is a wonderful practice to be curious about if you're new to that space because it can often be, a practice that, you're given a certain pattern or maybe you're breathing in a certain style.

[00:15:39] So it allows you to still say your mind is a bit active, but you're still able to bring that sort of, support to your body. so sometimes it can feel more accessible to people who feel like meditation's out of their reach because they just, they're like, "I just can't do it. I've never been successful at being, quiet enough for long enough."

[00:15:57] Breathwork is something to be really curious about if that's a way in which you wanna get ... practice more in, of that type of a tool. What you said is, is so right. You don't have to do it 30 minutes. What we know and what science tells us is that as little as, five minutes a day a couple times a day can make a huge difference- Wow

[00:16:16] in your stress level. So yeah. 

[00:16:18] Robin Rountree: And is that breathwork, is it just switching to make sure you're breathing from your stomach, or are there different types? is there a I need to relax type of breathwork and I need energy type of breathwork? 

[00:16:30] Jamie Hollis: There, there are both. You- Oh. That is yes, there are both. and s- what I would say, especially when I think about our caregivers and, when I think about, when someone's in that role, you're kinda always anticipating and you're thinking- and you're making decisions and you're planning ahead. the type of breath patterns, and there are several, the ones that give us access to a slow down response, are things like, for example, there's one, the cyclic sigh or the physiological sigh, is a way of breathing that has us, taking in oxygen through, a nasal breath and doing it in two steps and then releasing it really slow and long.

[00:17:10] So there's certain breath patterns that, yeah, we certainly have, in our repertoire that are made specifically to help us really, like I say, relax. 

[00:17:19] Robin Rountree: Okay, let's get into the bones on that one that you're ... So you're saying breathe in through my nose- 

[00:17:24] Jamie Hollis: ... 

[00:17:24] Robin Rountree: and then top it off. 

[00:17:25] Jamie Hollis: I am.

[00:17:26] Okay. So we could, let's, I mean- Okay ... if we can, let's just do it together. So- Let's do it. Okay. So let, I'll talk you through it first, and then we'll just do it together. 

[00:17:32] Robin Rountree: Okay. 

[00:17:33] Jamie Hollis: So the first step is a full inhale through the nose. It doesn't need to be, like, filling all your lungs all the way to capacity.

[00:17:39] It can just be, like, a full breath. The second step is taking one extra sip, through the nose, again, just to kinda top off, fully expand those lungs. We're reaching parts of our, those tiny little sacks at the end of our bronchi that, we're gonna inflate those through that last sip, and then we are gonna exhale using a really slow, long exhale through the open mouth.

[00:18:02] So let's ... You wanna try it together? Let's do it. Okay, let's do it. Okay. We're first step is we're gonna take a full inhale through the nose, last sip, and a long exhale. 

[00:18:15] Robin Rountree: That's nice. All right. 

[00:18:17] Jaimie Hollis: And so what ... Yeah, if you can repeat that cycle, and you can do that for as long as three to five minutes, it's a great thing to be curious about. Try it for three to five minutes, and then just kinda notice how you feel. 

[00:18:30] Robin Rountree: Wow. And that you could do that while you're waiting for your doctor appointment. You can ... That's what I love about these tools is you can do it while you're watching TV.

[00:18:41] Yes. Hey, commercial break. 

[00:18:42] Let me do this breath trick while I'm watching this commercial I don't really wanna watch. 

[00:18:47] Jamie Hollis: Exactly. Exactly. I use it a lot in the car. sometimes it's, It's because I'm transitioning from, my workday, going home.

[00:18:54] A lotta times I will use that particular breath pattern in the car because it helps me, kinda helps, like, I'm ... I've been in, I'm firing on all cylinders and thinking about, work and meetings and re- you know, relating to other people, and I'm really wanting to kinda transition into a more relaxed m- my home life.

[00:19:13] And that breath pattern is one I'll often pull out in the car to help with that transition. 

[00:19:18] Robin Rountree: Wow. And if you're like, "Okay, there's one breath pattern, but I need all the tools in my tool belt," where do you learn more about breathwork? 

[00:19:27] Jamie Hollis: So the great thing about breathwork is I belie- it, it is becoming

[00:19:31] We're talking about it more, right? . But what you can find now are a variety of resources online, because it, to be honest, finding a breath pattern, a breath, exercise that feels really good for your body, that's just it.

[00:19:46] everyone's a little bit different, right? We all have our own biochemistry. We all have our own, anatomy. So there's ways in which you can look online, that you can really access science-supported breathwork. So Stanford did a study, about the cyclic sigh that we just practiced together.

[00:20:01] We also know things like even humming, they're, like, with a low tone can actually also stimulate that part of our nervous system that gives us that rest and digest signal. So there, there are more and more resources available online to look at, like I say, evidence-supported practices, in the moment, right?

[00:20:18] To use like that. So- Right ... yeah. 

[00:20:21] Robin Rountree: So but if it feels uncomfortable Don't do it. 

[00:20:25] Jamie Hollis: Exactly. and every facilitator and every practitioner who is in this line of work has their own s- sort of style. the style that, that I believe and practice is very client-led. a breathwork session f- with me is really something where we're l- learning to listen to our bodies.

[00:20:40] Just getting in the practice of following your body and, and trusting that if something feels uncomfortable, that you have options. You have options to be able to, shift into a different way of breath that feels more comfortable to you.

[00:20:56] So the idea is that breath can really open up, our way of actually also, being available to thinking about who we are, right? there's ways that we use the breath to, reduce anxiety in the moment, like we just talked about. There's also breath patterns that we use to really also heal.

[00:21:12] you know- Wow ... we can use that to, to get inside of ourselves and to have access to things that we may have buried in there. there's a lot of interesting books that are wr- written on that. The Body Keeps the Score being one of them. And that's one that's more readily known. we know that those ways of getting inside our body can gives us access to some of those, really pretty transformational healing.

[00:21:32] Okay. If someone doesn't wanna go down the rabbit hole of the internet- ... can they reach out to you at, um, thewholespace.org? 

[00:21:40] Yes, I would love it. I'd love to be, I'd love to be a resource. I'm happy to, pass along, yeah, exactly that, different practices people can try out at home, or if there's a workshop or anything, I'm happy to be

[00:21:53] Yeah, I'm happy to definitely point people in their own direction of where they wanna go. 

[00:21:57] Robin Rountree: Thank you so much. And if someone else has questions or you wanna spend some time with Jamie, it is thewholespace.org. Jamie Hollis, thank you so much for being here. 

[00:22:07] Jamie Hollis: I am so deeply grateful for your invitation.

[00:22:09] I loved our conversation.

[00:22:11] Robin Rountree: Same. Please make sure to subscribe to our podcast, Informed Aging, and tell your family and friends about us. If you'd like to support the work that we do at the Alzheimer's and Dementia Resource Center, please go to adrccares.org/donate.

[00:22:28] Today's episode was recorded at ADRC's podcast studio. That's it for now. We're looking forward to our next visit

[00:22:38]